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Dylan Thuras: So clearly we're going to be speaking about place and the best way that place impacts who you're. I might love to listen to about rising up in Texas.
Sam Sanders: I grew up round San Antonio within the San Antonio larger metro space. And my home-home-hometown is that this little city known as Seguin, Texas, which is about 30 miles exterior of San Antonio. And it's the self-titled pecan capital of the world. As in like, we're pecan mecca. There have been truly a bunch of pecan shops on the town rising up. There have been two pecan timber in our entrance yard in my childhood house in Seguin, Texas. And in entrance of the courthouse in Seguin, the sculpture in entrance isn't like Girl Justice with the scales. It's a big, outsized concrete pecan with the phrases beneath it, “world's largest pecan.”
Dylan: It's my type of city.
Sam: Hell yeah. And it's a kind of small cities the place everybody is aware of everyone. My father had lived there for many years. My dad and mom have been small enterprise house owners. And at factors throughout my youth, they owned each a funeral house and a daycare. So I grew up there. After which in center faculty, we moved to one of many nearer suburbs. After which I ended up going to undergrad within the coronary heart of San Antonio. However San Antonio is house. And that metro space is house. And like, in maturity, the entire complexities of recent life that I've needed to make peace with, I started to know these complexities in San Antonio, Texas.
I'm Dylan Thuras, and that is Atlas Obscura, celebration of the world's unusual, unimaginable, and wondrous locations. At this time, I'm speaking with reporter, host, podcaster, man about city, Sam Sanders. And I requested him to inform me about his life as instructed in 4 distinct locations. Sam spent 12 years at NPR. You've nearly actually heard his voice in some unspecified time in the future. He's launched exhibits like It's Been a Minute. He is aware of a ton about popular culture and hosts podcasts like Vibe Test and The Sam Sanders Present. And alongside the best way, all through this profession, it's meant that he has needed to transfer round a bunch. He grew up in Texas, moved to the East Coast, out to the West Coast. And it began again in Texas, when he was only a child with a rising obsession for popular culture, type of looking for his place in a small city close to San Antonio.
That is an edited transcript of the Atlas Obscura Podcast: a celebration of the world's unusual, unimaginable, and wondrous locations. Discover the present on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and all main podcast apps.
Sam: San Antonio is that this bizarre place as a result of Texas isn't fairly South, not fairly Southwest, simply Texas, and San Antonio sits proper at that nexus. It's within the center. It's within the center. And there are elements of my upbringing there that felt extremely Southern, with a mom who comes from Alabama and a father from East Texas, which is mainly Louisiana. However in some ways, my expertise rising up felt very Southwest. And I grew up in a metropolis that was decidedly majority minority, so long as I used to be there. And even now, to this present day, San Antonio was about two-thirds Latino. So I additionally ended up rising up on this purple state that's Texas in a blue oasis. San Antonio is blue. And San Antonio is a metropolis led by individuals of shade. And so I by no means had this distinct and visceral hatred of Texas due to its politics, as a result of it's like, oh, I truly know the politics are far more sophisticated. And in truth, each huge metropolis in Texas is definitely blue. Houston, San Antonio, Dallas, El Paso. I may go on. San Antonio, Austin. These are blue cities. I wish to say Houston had a lesbian mayor earlier than it was cool. These locations are progressive. And so I've all the time been capable of admire the political complexity of a spot like Texas due to San Antonio.
Dylan: Texas is like, it's like perhaps the third or it's method up there as essentially the most, one of the various states within the union.
Sam: Have you ever been to Houston?
Dylan: Yeah.
Sam: It's the mannequin UN, child. Prefer it's every part, all over the place, .
Dylan: Yeah, huge time. While you grew up in Texas, you grew up in just a little little bit of a, perhaps extra of a conservative or not less than non secular family. Is that proper?
Sam: Oh my God. It was so non secular. So my dad and mom didn't go to the identical church. My father was Methodist, type of boring black Methodist, good upstanding, quiet church companies. My mom was all the time churchy and loud, charismatic Christian. And by the point I used to be like eight or 9, we had joined the strictest model of that church. It was Pentecostal slash apostolic, however she was a church organist. The defining ethos of the church and the follow of our religion, it was like doing issues that confirmed that we weren't like, quote unquote, the world. We weren't just like the secular. So in the best way we seemed, acted, and the issues we did, it wasn't simply to serve God, however to show that we weren't just like the heathens.
So as an illustration, the ladies couldn't put on jewellery or make-up or pants they usually couldn't minimize their hair. So all of them wore lengthy skirts and had lengthy hair in buns and wore no make-up or jewellery. We didn't go to the flicks or faculty dances as a result of that felt too secular. I needed to beg to go to promenade. And my mother was like, “Don't inform the church, however you possibly can go.” We weren't presupposed to take pleasure in any cultural content material that wasn't centered on God. So it was a gospel music solely family. And my brother and I snuck quite a bit to observe a variety of TV. Though my mom was such a champion of Black leisure and Black tradition, she would make exceptions for us to observe issues as a household, like In Dwelling Coloration or Roots, the miniseries. As a result of she was like, “You gotta see this. You gotta see it.” You realize?
However my complete upbringing was constructed consuming that secular popular culture in secret. As quickly as I may sneak away from my mother within the mall to go purchase CDs at like Sam Goody, I might. And I might purchase secular CDs. And I might convey them house at the back of my underwear. And I might take heed to them on my Walkman within the lavatory for hours. I keep in mind getting ahold of Stevie Surprise's Innervisions in like eighth grade and sitting within the lavatory as an eighth grader for hours, simply taking part in it over and time and again. And I might get all these bizarre seems from my mother. And I used to be like, she thinks I'm masturbating. In a method I used to be. However I used to be simply listening to Stevie Surprise. I used to be simply listening to Stevie Surprise over and time and again. However my complete upbringing, I snuck and listened to those CDs. I snuck and watched VH1 Behind the Music. I snuck and watched MTV music movies. And I feel a part of why I've a profession now the place I simply discuss widespread tradition is due to that. It was forbidden fruit in my youth. So now I relish the prospect to receives a commission to speak about it.
Dylan: Take be aware, dad and mom, the boomerang impact is actual. Let's discuss a few of the locations that you just felt type of outline some features of your self.
Sam: Let's do it. Let's do it.
Dylan: So discuss to me just a little bit in regards to the Charles River.
Sam: The Charles River. So I bought my graduate diploma on the Kennedy Faculty, which is Harvard's Faculty of Coverage and Authorities. And the campus, in addition to my first yr residence in Harvard Sq., sat alongside the Charles River, which meant that day-after-day to get to class, I walked a couple of mile alongside the Charles River. I preferred the stroll. However inside the first few weeks of strolling alongside the Charles, I saved seeing all of those runners operating alongside the Charles. Early within the morning, late at evening, when it was raining, when it was sunny, when it was snowing. Simply actually a military of happy-go-lucky, smiling white individuals in brief shorts operating. And I used to be identical to, what the hell? What are they—what is occurring? And finally, I noticed them do it sufficient and look so blissful, I used to be like, I want to do that.
Dylan: They bought you. They bought you.
Sam: They bought me. After which I began operating, and I cherished it. And what occurred for me inside these two years of being up there and embracing operating alongside the river, it was the primary time in my grownup life the place I stated to myself, bodily health and exercise needs to be a part of your grownup life, even when it's not a part of a factor you're doing for college or a sports activities membership you're concerned in. You possibly can simply do it for you. And so the explanation the Charles River is so essential to me is as a result of it actually solidified what has develop into an enormous a part of my private follow for day-after-day, which is, day-after-day you need to transfer. I type of don't really feel like my day has began till I've gotten my coronary heart charge above 150.
Dylan: I really feel this. I'm a biker, and I do a motorbike commute to my workplace. It's an eight-mile bike trip, and I very a lot really feel the identical method. It's like, you simply unburden your self just a little bit. You're feeling lighter and extra prepared for no matter goes to come back subsequent after just a little little bit of motion. It's true.
Sam: And it's meditative. I all the time get to a degree in a run—so as of late, once I do run, I attempt to do 5 miles. That's it. No extra, no much less. And one thing occurs round mile three or 4, I get misplaced within the sound of my ft and my breath. And I'm simply monitoring these sounds and dwelling in my physique and listening to these sounds. And the ideas I'm pondering are nonetheless there, however they're within the rear view. And I say, once I get to that half, and I say this non-religiously, I say it deeply, capital S, spiritually, once I get into that stream, that's what I'm speaking to God. And I need that point. That intense, I've linked with my physique and the world and this house, and I'm in stream. I don't know. I don't know. I sound hella California proper now, however you realize what I'm saying.
Dylan: I do know what you're saying. I do know what you're saying. I imply, talking of California, I imply, you moved from one type of desert-ish panorama, Texas, it is determined by the place you're in Texas, however to a different. Now you reside in LA. What's your relationship with LA, with place, with the outside, the place you at the moment are?
Sam: Yeah. I grew to become a full nature girly as soon as I bought to California. Partly, there was a seashore proper there. So I didn't have the Charles River anymore. However for variety of years once I was dwelling on the Westside, my morning follow was getting up round six, making my espresso, and driving to Venice seashore to do my 5 mile loop from the Venice a part of the seashore to the Santa Monica pier and again. It's a 5 mile loop. It's one of the simplest ways to start out your day. I might try this. After which I might sit within the sand and meditate for like 5 minutes. And if I felt frisky, I might bounce in.
However what actually made me a full nature woman in California have been the nationwide parks. I might all the time go house for Thanksgiving. And I've had a canine for many of my grownup life. So on holidays, once I was going house, I'd wish to take the canine with me. So I might drive house. For years, I've been making the drive to Texas from both DC or from LA. However I might drive previous a variety of nationwide parks. Rising up, my household wasn't into nationwide parks. I wasn't actually an outside individual. I imply, I used to be in marching band, that saved me exterior. However I used to be not in search of to be outside on a regular basis. My father was a cattle rancher. And we had that household farm about two hours away from the home. After we'd go up there on the weekends, my brother can be on the market within the brush with my dad with the cows. I actually can be in the home on the farm watching Bob Ross. I simply was not an outside individual. I had by no means camped. The outside was not a part of my follow. And regardless that at that time I used to be operating, you run and also you go inside. You're exterior whilst you run, then you definitely go inside.
All this to say, as soon as I started making that highway journey from LA to Texas over and time and again, I might maintain seeing these nationwide parks. And I used to be like, perhaps I ought to cease at some point. So I'll always remember on a kind of journeys house, I stated, I'm simply going to enter Joshua Tree Nationwide Park. It's alongside the best way. And I went into Joshua Tree with my canine, Zora, Zora Neale Hurston. And I used to be like, I keep in mind being just a little offended. I used to be like, how did nobody inform me that this place is simply right here? And it's bought these timber out of outer house and also you have been like strolling on a unique planet. And it's identical to this park that you could simply go hand around in. How did nobody inform me? After which on one other highway journey, I found White Sands Nationwide Park, which can also be like being on one other planet. It's wild. And so rapidly after being in California, I made being in nationwide parks and experiencing nationwide parks, like a part of my follow. I now have a kind of all passes that will get you into each park for like 80 bucks a yr. And I make it a degree to plan journeys the place I'm simply going to a nationwide park. I did the Sequoias just a few months in the past and it was transcendent.
However yeah, Joshua Tree was the primary place in my grownup life that stated to me, you could be exterior for no different goal than simply to benefit from the outside. And that's not simply cool, it's type of best. I used to be not an individual who simply frolicked exterior to hang around exterior earlier than I found Joshua Tree Nationwide Park. And now I'm like, when can I sit exterior? Please, I wish to be exterior. I'll have associates that wish to meet up and do stuff. And I'm all the time like, can we go on a hike? And my grownup embrace of simply being outside was absolutely introduced on by the sweetness that's Joshua Tree Nationwide Park. I additionally suppose, and listeners thank me for this, two professional suggestions for Joshua Tree Nationwide Park: don't go when it's scorching, go when it's chilly. It's simply as sunny. And the chilly air makes it really feel extraterrestrial much more. After which two: whenever you drive into Joshua Tree Nationwide Park, particularly for the primary time, you must be taking part in U2's Joshua Tree album. It really works. Belief me, it really works. It simply is unimaginable.
Dylan: LA has given you this appreciation for nature. I really like Joshua Tree, clearly for the character. A part of this has additionally been, you stated you had a canine. In order that canine can also be, I think about, will get you out and about. Possibly discuss how that relationship, each with nature after which with caring for an animal has developed and the way place comes into that.
Sam: Yeah, I've two canines. I rescued a pit bull once I was dwelling in DC from a shelter in Northeast. I rescued Zora. She was perhaps like eight or 9 months outdated. And that was most likely like 2010 or 11. So she's been round for some time with me and he or she's moved throughout the nation with me a number of occasions. And throughout the deepest COVID lockdown, we simply highway tripped throughout the nation just a few occasions, me and her. So she has simply been a relentless in my grownup life. Final summer season, I assumed she was dying. There have been a bunch of emergency surgical procedures and he or she was simply outdated and simply not with it. So in my worry of her pending dying, I bought a second pit bull, just a little pet with a cow coloured coat. I named him Wesley Snipes. And so now I've two. When Zora was younger, for just a few years, she had a lot power. She would come on these 5 mile runs with me in DC. We'd run the monuments and again within the morning. However as soon as I bought to California together with her and with Wesley, the brand new pet, my favourite canine place with them rapidly grew to become Huntington Canine Seaside. You realize, all of California is seashores and every of them have a unique character. Huntington Seaside is perhaps an hour south of LA alongside the coast. However in Huntington Seaside, there is sort of a mile and a half strip of that seashore that's simply reserved for canines to be off leash. And it's the closest factor to heaven on earth you'll ever discover.
Dylan: For you or the canine?
Sam: Each. The primary time I went there, I didn't know that typically they've themed canine meetups. So the primary time I went to Huntington Canine Seaside after I'd heard about it, I present up there on the morning of the pug costume meetup day. It was in October. And lots of of pug house owners introduced their pugs to the canine seashore and every pug was in a fancy dress. Are you able to identify a extra stunning scene?
Dylan: This does sound fairly pleasant, I've to confess. I'm charmed from a distance even.
Sam: Proper? After which, you realize, with this seashore, having a canine off leash on the seashore, it all the time makes me simply admire the seashore in a brand new method. I've lived in LA properly over a decade now and I feel I do know seashores, however whenever you see a canine off leash, on a seashore, it offers you a newfound respect for the seashore itself. The stuff you don't discover, they do. The issues they wish to run round to, you don't wish to run round to it and then you definitely see it otherwise by way of them. I think about in the identical method that, you realize, dad and mom of younger children say that just like the younger child helps them see a world that felt static and boring in new and alive methods since you watch them uncover issues for the primary time. The equal for a single homosexual man is a canine at Huntington Canine Seaside.
Dylan: And hundreds of pugs in costumes. No, it's good. I prefer it.
Sam: And so there's this very attention-grabbing dynamic with my younger canine, Wesley Snipes. He's equal elements a goofball, but additionally scared out of his thoughts, but additionally desires to attempt to be there for his individuals. And he does this factor the place each time he desires to wander away and discover and go loopy, he'll be off in his personal world after which he'll neglect the place I'm and he'll look again and simply cease in his tracks and be like, you continue to there? You continue to there? He does it on a regular basis. And he does it essentially the most at Huntington Canine Seaside. And it's simply this stunning reminder that this canine who I've to totally look after—he's my accountability, he doesn't pay lease—even in that energy dynamic, he nonetheless desires to care about me. He nonetheless desires to ensure that I'm there. And I feel having canines, so long as I've had, they're this wonderful reminder that each one sentient beings, one of many issues that we lengthy for many is to look after issues apart from ourselves. And canines remind you of that. As a result of canines don't must do shit. I might feed you anyway. Such as you get this home anyway, however they're all the time in their very own little canine methods caring for me.
Dylan: All proper, final query. You've lived a variety of locations, Texas, Boston, DC, LA. Do you suppose, is that this your endlessly place or do you suppose perhaps there's someplace else that's calling you?
Sam: I really like LA. I really like LA as a result of it's like one countless scavenger hunt. You're by no means carried out discovering this metropolis. You're by no means carried out discovering the entire cool issues there are to do right here. Somebody smarter than me stated that you need to take a look at LA as not a metropolis, however like a nation state. And it'll take you years to determine all of it out. And that's the great thing about it. So I like that. I just like the puzzle that's LA. I feel in some unspecified time in the future I want to be doing one thing that feels off the grid, doing one thing that's, you realize, huge outdated farm with eight pit bulls. I don't know. However that may occur when it like simply falls into my lap. I don't suppose I'll search it out. If the chance opened itself up, I might do it. However for now, I used to be blessed sufficient to get a mortgage a couple of yr and a half in the past. I used to be renting this home and the house owners simply bought it to me. They moved to France throughout the pandemic. They're like, we're not coming again. Would you purchase it? So I needed to say sure.
Dylan: That's how I bought my home too.
Sam: Actually?
Dylan: Yeah. Renting and the house owners stated, hey, we wish to promote. Would you purchase it? And I used to be like, heck yeah.
Sam: However that's type of what I attempt to let information a variety of my decision-making about huge selections. In the event you identical to attempt to have day, reside life, be round good individuals, the alternatives that you need to participate in, they type of simply current themselves to you. After I made Vibe Test with Zach and Saeed, it was type of simply this no brainer. I used to be like, we have now to do it. This new present I simply launched with KCRW, they known as me. They have been like, come do that factor. And so I attempted to, in my grownup life, not stress over the large life selections about love, profession, housing, location, as a result of inevitably these paths type of simply current themselves. I feel, I hope. I'd moderately or not it's that method. I hate huge selections.
Dylan: I agree with that philosophy. Sam, thanks for approaching the present and spending a while chatting with me.
Sam: Thanks for indulging me. I simply, I'm a rambler, as you possibly can inform.
Dylan: I cherished it. It's nice. Yeah, however you're an expert rambler, Sam. Like that is, you realize what I imply? You're not an novice rambler.
Pay attention and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and all main podcast apps.
This podcast is a co-production of Atlas Obscura and Stitcher Studios. This episode was produced by Tomeka Weatherspoon and the manufacturing group contains me, Dylan Thuras, Johanna Mayer, Chris Naka, Doug Baldinger, Kameel Stanley, Manolo Morales, Baudelaire, Gabby Gladney, and Talon Stradley.
Our technical director is Casey Holford. This episode was sound designed by Tomeka Weatherspoon and blended by Luz Fleming and Sam Kass. Tomeka Weatherspoon and blended by Luz Fleming. Our theme and finish credit score music is by Sam Tyndall.
